Moderating Leaves Chat

 
 

THE BIG PAGE OF RULES

Here are the rules as they are explained to our users. Click in and have a look — they are available to everyone on the sidebar:

The good news is that everyone reads them and carefully follows them!

Okay, that’s not true, hardly anyone reads them until they run into one, so we often have to explain the rules even as we take out posts and comments.

Here are some notes on each — you should read this through, but it’s probably worth bookmarking so you can refer back to it in case you get stuck:

Rule 1 — Kindness: Our kindness rules is our most important rule. It is central to our values and defines who we are. We have said before that we are a kindness subreddit first and an addiction subreddit second.

That applies to everyone and everything. It’s not just about being kind to each other, it’s about keeping this a kind place. That means not being rude back to people who are being rude, or saying things in a rude way even about people who may seem like they deserve it.

That doesn’t mean we can’t be truthful, it just means that we have to keep a kind tone for the group as a whole.

Usually okay:

  • “Well, that definitely wasn’t my experience, but I’m glad you’re feeling better!”

  • “It seems like you are having a bad time of it, is there some way I can help?”

  • “I’m sorry if that came across that way, it’s definitely not how I meant it!”

  • “I don’t like what your boyfriend said and I don’t think it’s fair.”

Usually not okay:

  • “This is a place of mutual support and kindness, so you should shut the f up and go find another sub.”

  • “There are multiple scientific studies on this so you’re making no sense.”

  • “That’s not what I said at all, and if you think so then you have bigger problems than just the weed.”

  • “Wow, your boyfriend sounds like a complete jackass. You should leave him now.”

Rule 2 — Quit for Good: It’s important to understand that we don’t advocate for anyone to quit or even consider quitting. We are a pot-positive group and there are as many ways to have a healthy relationship with cannabis as there are people. But we do have a mission, and that’s to serve the people like us — the people who, after so many tries and so many problems, have decided that they have to stop and stop for good as soon as possible.

Members can not know how to start. They can be too frightened to start. They can be repeatedly failing, but if they know in their heart that they can never smoke again then they are welcome here.

That means that we have to draw some lines. If you get the impression that they haven’t made the hard decision to be done for good then that’s a reason to remove their post or comment, and we have mod messages you can send them.

And what about tapering? Tapering discussions are allowed, and people are welcome to follow what works for them, but for the purposes of the group we need to draw a line between “tapering” and “just putting off quitting. That line is two weeks of cutting back whatever they’re already using. No six month plans, no switching to some other product, no meticulous formulae, just a planned reduction over two weeks. Anything else is outside the rules.

Usually okay:

  • “I need to quit, this is killing me, but I smoked three times this week.”

  • “I have to stop for good but I don’t even know where to start, any tips?”

  • “I’ve tried tapering over and over, but I can seem to quit entirely. How do I stop for good?”

Usually not okay:

  • “I’m going to quit for a month and see where I am.”

  • “I’m gradually cutting back until my birthday in 6 months.”

  • “I’ve made the decision to stop abusing cannabis.” (This often means they are just cutting back.)

  • “I’m quitting for good except one time in July when I’m smoking with my brother.”

  • “I need to find a better relationship with smoking.”

  • “I’ve totally quit, and will only smoke on super-special occasions.”

  • “I’ve been working on cutting back my weed consumption with the goal of ultimately quitting for good.”

Rule 3 — Smoked Today: We’ve all been high, and we all know how little we can rely on the life-changing resolutions we make while we’re smoking. If someone is participating high then they need to wait until they haven’t smoked. It’s fair to them because we can really only help them when they’re sober, and it’s fair to our sober members who shouldn’t be exposed to someone who’s smoking.

We tend to give people the benefit of the doubt in applying this rule. We only take it out if they explicitly say they smoked today or are high right now.

Usually okay:

  • “I need to quit but can’t bring myself to stop.”

  • “I know I have to quit but I’ve smoked every day, morning to night, for the last year.”

Usually not okay:

  • “I just smoked the last of my stash and that’s it forever.”

  • “Sorry everybody, but I’m high right now and I realized something important….”

  • “I spent the day at my friends today where we just smoked and played video games…”

Rule 4 — Keep It About You: Leaves is a place where you talk about how you feel and what you’re doing. If you have lessons to offer you present them through your own experience, not by telling others what to do.

This rule applies to people who tell others how they should be feeling, or the “proper” way to quit, or anyone referencing outside science or “proof” of how things are or should be. The rule also spares us from self-appointed “gurus” who want to tell us to follow their ways, many of whom have never had a problem with smoking at all.

If it’s not them talking about themselves, then Rule 4 applies.

Usually okay:

  • “It really helped me to exercise every day, maybe you could try that.”

  • “That’s exactly how I feel when I have an anxiety attack.”

  • “You still have your stash? When I was at Day 6 I realized that it wasn’t all about discipline for me, I needed to get rid of my stash.”

Usually not okay:

  • “You need to get your act together and hit the gym.”

  • “I talk about a five-point plan for bettering yourself on my YouTube channel…”

  • “Your problem is you don't know your problem. You think it's about "will" and "being a man."

  • “Ignore what everyone else is saying, it’s about personal responsibility and that’s it.”

Often it’s not just one thing — they’ll start off talking about themselves and then transition into giving direct advice. Use your judgment on things like that. If it’s more direction than sharing then take it out. You can also use the tone as a guide. If they are suggesting vs. directing then that may sway you toward keeping it.

Rule 5 — Anti-Cannabis or Anti-Smokers. It is totally understandable that people who are quitting change their opinions about weed, the smoking life, and people who are still living that life, and they are welcome to express those opinions as they apply to themselves. But once those opinions extend to r/trees, or other smokers, or society, or anything outside their experience they’ve strayed from the purpose of the group.

Usually okay:

  • “My roommate doesn’t respect my quitting and it’s driving me crazy, any tips on dealing with it?”

  • “I’m constantly seeing articles on celebrities smoking and it’s triggering. How can I get past this?”

  • "My state just legalized weed and I’m afraid I’m going to break.”

Usually not okay:

  • “Doesn’t anyone understand how bad weed is?”

  • “I realize now how dangerous legalization is.”

  • “I just went back to trees and it’s just a subreddit for addicts deluding themselves.”

  • “I feel sorry for my roommates now, they’re still stuck in addiction and it’s sad.”

Rule 6 — Drugs and Supplements. This one is worth reading carefully, and if you’re not sure how to enforce it feel free to ask questions until you get a feel for it. It’s our most difficult rule for both members and mods, so we work hard to keep it fair. As it says in the mod message:

“…with 250,000 users here every month we have people who want to discuss 5-HTP, CBD, dramamine, l-theanine, ashwagandha, alcohol, valerian root, gabapentin, various nootropics, microdosing different strains, psilocybin, ayahuasca, kratom, microdosing LSD, megadosing LSD, and (literally) a hundred other compounds.

“We couldn't keep up and the group was beginning to sound more like a dark web forum than a recovery group, so we had to get out of the whole category. We're just not in a position to make substance-by-substance clinical judgements, and when we allowed those discussions they took over the group.”

We now allow people to talk about their own experience in the general ways described in the rule, no specific drugs or supplements, no recommending anything to others.

AutoMod will catch a lot of drug and med references, and it’s the only time AutoMod just sends an automated message back. But the general rule is that if someone recommends something that you take, apply, eat, or drink that they assert has any curative powers, that falls under the rule.

Usually okay:

  • “Making tea has been a great replacement for the rituals of smoking.”

  • “My doctor helped me with prescription medications for anxiety.”

  • "I’ve tried various supplements and they haven’t helped.”

Usually not okay:

  • “You’ll find OTC medications for sleep, you should try those.”

  • “I tried a supplement that ends in atonin that really helped.”

  • “Microdosing certain substances you might find in a forest really helps.”

Again, this is our most difficult rule both to enforce and to help our members to understand, so do your best with it and don’t be afraid to ask for second opinions.

Rule 7 — Outside media and links. This is a lesson we learned the hard way — when we allowed links and images they simply took over the group. Memes, blogs, vlogs, studies, articles of widely varying quality and truth, they drowned the feed and caused arguments as people disputed the conclusions of third parties that had nothing to do with the group.
Remember Rule 4? Keep it about you? The only experts we want to hear from are our members, and the only subject we want to hear them talk about is how they’re feeling and what they’re going through. We can’t find that in outside articles or memes.

Usually okay:

  • “I really like the Judith Grisel book on addiction.”

  • “You should check out http://marijuanaanonymous.org” (Links to the organizations listed on the sidebar are okay, but only links to the home page or meeting page. No deep links or links to materials.)

Usually not okay:

  • “According to this article, weed is addictive…<link>”

  • “You should read the Judith Grisel book on addiction. <link>”

  • “What Randy Marsh says about smoking really his home for me. <link>”

  • “I just made a video about my journey in quitting.” (No vlogs, blogs, YouTube channels, or anything similar, even if it’s original content.)

Rule 8 — Moderators have the final say. We can’t anticipate everything, so you have wide latitude in enforcing anything that you don’t feel is appropriate for the group. It doesn’t have to be in the rules for you to decide to take action. You aren’t here to make sure people follow the rules, you are here to make sure people follow our values and our mission.

Usually not okay:

  • Anything you think is not okay.

Now that you know the rules, let’s look at how we wield The Leaves Hammer of Justice…